My experience as a conveyancing client

Bulk processing firm in bad client service shock. Who would have thought it...surely the writer, being so impressed with business savvy, might be able to hazard a few guesses as to why the bulk firm charge lower prices. Here's a clue: the correct answer involves peanuts and monkeys.

You respected his ethics on referral fees and yet you "ended up using the pre-stamped envelope he had sent out to post a present to a friend."

It seems to me you got the experience you deserved.

I would be interested to know how many 'bulk' conveyancing firms are actually using back office staff in India. Are any of them?

The point made above regarding fees paid to agents versus fees paid to solicitors is absolutely true. In some areas local competition has worn fees down to £250 per transaction. What is the answer though? Why don't more law firms open their own estage agencies? and offer a fuller service with employed financial advisers? Would it help us if we moved into a 'one stop shop' for all aspects of sale and purchase?

Estate agents are salesman. It surprises me not at all that they'd make money at all stages of the process. The sales opportunities throughout a conveyancing transaction are many and varied if you think about it.

I hate to say it, but I think the moral of the story is clear.

Ask yourself why the Local Agent recommended the first local solicitor, notwithstanding he wasn't the cheapest nor paid referral fees?

You get what you pay for, and once you take the budget option, don't be surrpised if you get budget levels of service.

Unfortunately this is a classic example of the type of service you can expect from bulk conveyancers.

I worked for one for three years and all the points against them made here, and why they are as bad as they are, are completely valid. They, and all their competitors, do send as much work as possible to India. The whole driving process under which they operate is cost, i.e. pile it high and do it (very) cheaply. Corners were cut at every opportunity, staff were untrained and unknowledgeable, and customer service was non-existent.

In an office of over 100 people I was the only member of staff who had previously worked at a Solicitors. Even the managing partner had little conveyancing knowledge and I continually had to advise him of processes to ensure we stayed within Practice guidelines.

At the outset I took the job as a challenge. But my attempts to alter their working processes and bring a modicum of customer service to the Firm, let alone professionalism, were blocked at every turn. Some of this was because the Managing Partner, through ignorance, simply did not understand what I was proposing. The whole scenario was frightening, but very eye-opening.

In the end all my enthusiasm for the job was completely sucked away, and I had to get out before I lost my sanity. But after more than 25 years in the profession the whole experience left me completely disillusioned, that such poor processes and unprofessionalism can be tolerated by the Law Society.

I have worked in both re-mortgage and conveyancing for so-called "conveyancing mills". Any conveyancing client is bound to be demanding because moving house is so stressful, but if you choose to instruct online or use a bulk conveyancer you should be aware of limitations. If your conveyancing office is open seven days a week for extended hours then logically your conveyancer is not going to be available at all times. This is why phones are diverted or a system of call-answering is used which means that you will not be speaking directly to the person in charge of your case. I also think it unreasonable to suggest that your conveyancer should have reported to you and presumably every other client of his/hers when he/she went on holiday. The firm may have been slow in re-allocating the workload when the fee earner left, but if the customer chooses to instruct a cheap arms-length conveyancing provider rather than a local solicitor, it should be expected that an expensive personal service will not be provided.

It is a sad fact, but true, that Rachel, amongst many, has unrealistic expectations of the conveyancing process. Conveyancing is the most competitive area of practice and consequently, the cheapest necessitating handling a large caseload. The difficulty is handling the large volume of calls and getting the time to actually do the work. It's simple, we all need to increase our charges so we handle less files.... or, is there an alternative.....?

It's simple, Rachel. Next time, meet your solicitor face to face to discuss what you expect and your solicitor can explain the realities of the transaction. Tell your agent not to contact your solicitor - your solicitor will, as a matter of courtesy, let them know once exchange and completion has taken place and enlist their help if needed on other occasions. Simple, but effective. The reality is, why should you pay for your agent (bearing in mind the hundreds of other agents in any one caseload) to take up your solicitors time in giving them 'updates' when that time could and should be spent carrying out the specialist searches and investigations to protect your interests and speaking with you. It's not being rude to agents - unfortunately, it is the reality. People talk about conveyancing being stressful but please do not forget the solicitor - follow this advice and it will take away much of the stress for all.

I feel I must respond to the earlier post by this gentleman. It is all well and good now you have retired and have time on your hands to pick holes in another lawyer's work. I'm sure if I were to look over your previous files, I'm sure I could find fault. You also say you practised as a litigation solicitor. How up-to-date was your conveyancing experience? I kknow the property laws have radically changed since I entered the legal profession over 20 years ago. If you consider the matter was dealt with negligently, I presume you brought it to the firm's attention. You should be able to appreciate as a former solicitor that, with the best will in the world, we are all guilty of taking our eye of the ball at some point, without being intentionally negligent. I just believe it is discourteous give the impression that most Bournemouth solicitors are incompetent on such a public forum. Have you never come across the laws of libel?

With conveyancing, you really do get what you pay for. The problem for conveyancers - ones who want to offer good service - is to successfully impress upon the public not to think 'cheap' first but to think ‘quality’. Quality does come at a price, we all know that, but incredibly, choosing a quality conveyancer to properly convey your home into your ownership (with all the proper rights to connect to utilities, all necessary rights of way, compliance with planning and restrictive covenants) seems to be overlooked by many.

For the majority of us, purchasing a home is the single most expensive item we will ever buy in our lives. Yet I remain surprised at how many people fail to use a law firm, but rather attempt it DIY or use a 'here today, gone when you find out we messed up' outfit run with minimal qualified personnel.

I appreciate people will be price sensitive when deciding which conveyancer to use, especially when you just have to search the internet and see conveyancing for £89. But such prices in themselves should raise alarm bells. Regrettably, every day people discover the ramifications of being cheap, but only at dear cost or learning next time.

The quality of who you choose to handle the legal conveyancing is key to a successful and trouble free house move. But this is directly related to price. Standards often slip as a result of a low fee. That is not to say that cheap conveyancing cannot result in a successful transaction. Of course it can. However, even at cheap fees, profit has to be made, so corners may be cut. It then ends up being the other solicitor in the transaction (who charges a fair price) who makes up for the cheaper outfit’s failings. Cheap fees, can also breed inexperience. Even now some firms consider the recruitment of non-qualified staff as some miracle cure to pulling through the economic crisis.

Very large conveyancing ‘warehouses’ can survive through sheer numbers of deals, albeit at low profit each, and so that is often what you can end up feeling like. A number. Are they a solicitor or senior conveyancer? Will you ever get through to Team A or Team B. Are they likely to be slow to respond to emails, or to set their telephone almost constantly onto divert or have junior colleagues speak to you or refuse to reply by email and post all responses. Maybe they feel that you have not paid enough to receive the very service you crave, which a local solicitor would have provided because they charge a proper fee and respect your £200,000 house deal. But you were promised a lawyer or someone senior! Too late!

Consequently, I would avoid those outfits that simply market on price. Use an established solicitor’s firm specialising in numerous areas of law. Make sure that at a minimum you will have a solicitor or senior conveyancer personally handling your conveyancing. Not that it needs to be local to enable you to go to their offices - as nearly all conveyancing is done by post as clients do not want the inconvenience of taking time out of work - but that you know that if there was an issue, they are readily available to sort things out.

I would always ask a local Estate Agent for an actual recommendation for a solicitors firm. I would also recommend speaking to a local estate agent over a national one. Solicitors and Estate Agents work together and get on well (despite the common misconception) as they have the same goal, to get people into houses. If they are an independent Agent - they will be integrated into the local community by definition and not accountable to targets and pressures set nationally. They will also know the good local law firms who will compliment their own local business.

I have been into certain national chain Estate Agents with my own property moving requirements before and asked which solicitor they would recommend. Some sent me to bulk conveyancers well out of the area. No mention of those firms in the very town I was in. In fact the Law Firm may also end up charging you more than a local solicitor would. I am not saying such law firms cannot deliver a successful transaction. Of course they can and often do, but be careful to ensure that that their recommended outfit is right for you.

In addition to speaking to Estate Agents, I would also be open to personal recommendation and of course phoning solicitor firms for quotes.

Once you have some solicitor Firms in mind, choosing which one can also be difficult unless you know the sorts of things you should expect for your fee. Solicitor Firms are not the same.

Here are some pointers:

Does the Firm sound friendly? Do they sound confident and knowledgeable? Will you get a solicitor/senior conveyancer from them either for the fee you pay? Do they use direct dials and emails? Are they hungry for your business?

Bearing in mind the majority of law firms are closed at the weekends, weekend and late openings are a red herring, as no business between solicitors can be conducted anyway. A Saturday in the office is a solitary time, so do not let such a factor necessarily be a selling point.

But does the law firm close at lunch or at 5pm sharp. As a solicitor specialising in conveyancing I find this most frustrating, as do my clients when I report back that the firm has gone to lunch. Can you imagine calling them. 'Hello hello, I am a millionaire with massive deal for you...oh you are closed, bye'.

Are they hungry for your business? There simply needs to be a hunger to ‘go that extra mile’ in terms of service and of course to deliver it. In peak times, many conveyancers did not have to go looking for the next piece of work, but now, every firm should be demonstrating a drive to survive the recession and provide a winning service that complements both their own and the Estate Agency's businesses.

Speaking from my point of view, my favourite question to ask an Estate Agent on first introduction is ‘what are your pet hates about a conveyancer?’ The answers are always the same. Always! Lack of communication, calls not returned, lack of solutions to problems, ‘conveyor belt’ of case handlers, 'dial * to speak to Team A', inexperienced staff’, ‘doesn’t use email, ‘I’ll need to speak to my principal’, ‘sorry he is engaged’ and his secretary in on another call, can you please call back’, ‘no we didn’t get the fax’.

You might think that conveyancers - be it a big firm or small firm - cannot afford to exhibit such traits, not in the present climate. Yet from my experience there are still those whose quality is suspect. Again, solicitor firms are not the same.

But a dedication to providing a quality service, over price, must surely be the choice. If that is not for you, then good luck, as you too will soon be looking to write an article about your own bad experience.

Let's face it, who knows the law better than solicitors. That is what buying and selling a house involves. I would not have my plumber do a will for me, or do the legal work on my divorce, and so I would not want anyone other than a solicitor doing my legal work.

The Law Society should look after solicitors, and make sure that the public know that the Conveyancing Value Range are certian people, and the Waitrose/M&S finest are solicitors. It's a no-brainer. But I don't hear solicitors promoted ever.

I am not a conveyancer and could not convey a property to save my life, but as a commercial lawyer, this ancedotal evidence about the commercial processes under -pinning the transaction seem to provide compelling evidence of numerous failures.

A few observations- although Rachel does work for the Law Society she has made it clear that her views are entirely personal. Whilst we must all respect her opinions, the chilling thing is that these views are held by an employee of our professional body, who presumably would have the best access to sources of advice; " leads" or information. If this is true of a Law Society professional, what hope is there for Solicitors' status with the general public, on the question of conveyancing practice and costs?

What is the Law Society doing, generically and publically to deal with these issues?

Further, there is still a vast disparity in the public mind between the " value" of Estate agents and value for Solicitors. One is seen, by the consumer as an important adjunct to the process the other, a necessary evil. Who normally gets paid the most?

A member of my own family worked in a provincial firm of traditional solictors in the provinces, in the 1970's. Not knowing anything about conveyancing practice, she was surprised that a senior partner would, particulary on large transactions, visit the premises himself. He would personally handle most aspects of the transaction and gave advice and a highly skilled service over the course of the whole transaction.

She was shocked at the reluctance to accept the Solictor's costs - often a small fraction of the Estate Agent's costs which for large properties could then amount to thousands. These were paid without demur but often the lawyer's costs were clealry resented- either haggled over or the client sought to reduce them. It seems things have not changed in 30 years.

A few suggestions-

Solictors do need to act more commercially - this does not mean competing on price, but representing true value.

This value should be demonstrated to the client- generic advertising? profession -wide publicity?

Its ok to market but do so on solid values- professionalism; the worth of the job; the most-important transaction anyone will ever make.

Somehow we have to correct the public view that the Esate Agent is the " savvy " man worth his salt; whilst the solictor is, as sometmes portrayed; a bumbling form-filler, an obscacle and a source of delay and needless trouble ( and thus cost).

Yes.....Friday's is a factory! Steer clear!

Interesting article in the Gazette dated 17 December page 8, but a little vague, so let’s start the debate.

The most obvious theme to conveyancing at the moment is how so many firms demonstrate poor service. And yet we have been in an economic downturn. How can they afford to? Crazy.

The key over the last 16 months has been to demonstrate exceptional service to clients and to justify the Estate Agent’s referral to you so they look good to their own clients look and word is spread. The biggest fee in the conveyancing process is the Agents’ fee, not the conveyancers’, so help the Agents look good. Reality check. If the Agent looks good, more work comes your way. Then again, making the competition look inferior by your own exceptional standards is also what you can do for yourself. It has been about maintaining one’s share of the market/pie and poaching others'. So few firms seem to have realised this. My Team have not missed a beat and we have benefitted tenfold.

The Estate Agent is your conveyancing friend. We are both getting our mutual client to the same goal. An exchange, and as promptly as possible – so we get paid and the client gets what they instructed us to do.

I am not aware of firms being adversarial though.

The Law Society have not helped at all. They allow CML to ride all over us. Get some teeth! Try getting an END1/DS1 promptly from some lenders. They take @£200 as a sealing fee, but weeks if not a month or two go by with many chasing letters before END1/DS1 comes through. They have prescribed the CML Handbook but they should have their own standards too. Post completion conveyancing should not be ignored over how to speed up pre-completion.

Then again, we know who the bad lenders are and quite simply I tell clients looking for mortgages who the poor administrating lenders are. Let them decide.

Criticism of HIPs is certainly a red herring. Sellers accept HIPs now and the cost of them, though pay anything more than £299 all in and then I can understand the resentment. But who really cares about HIPs one way or the other. Extra VAT creation for the government though. If only they’d spend the tax revenue wisely. But the Local Search can speed things up, the drainage search finally corrects those foolish firms who just relied on a water account, but the rest of the pack is pointless.

But the real way forward for conveyancing is for there to be a kite mark to promote the minimum standards that the public should look for in a conveyancer. Promote ‘solicitor firms’, not factories or should I say ‘pack ‘em high, service them cheap’ . That arrangement is to blame for why our PII cover is sky high. Thanks guys. Legal services should be by qualified practitioners. Shock. Not a pyramid of one lawyer and a mass of underling clerks who actually do (I mean attempt) the work.

‘Dumb down’ is how the last two decades can be viewed. Look at our role models on tv, and the ‘you know what mate’ language we see all around us. Get the quality back and the profession would self-correct. Factories would be weeded out, lame firms would get out or buck up, and systems would be cleaner and therefore quicker.

End the days of the 5pm and lunch-time closers, the failure to give direct dials or to use emails. Those conveyancers who must have everything thing in before they send out any paperwork on a sale, or everything in before they report to their client. KEEP THE CHAIN MOVING. But not the conveyancers who send trickle enquiry letters either. Failure to send out the HIP (or to at least say where it is), failure to send out up to date title relying on old HIP title, to fail to send out Transfers/Deeds revealed in the official copies, to stop being afraid of being sued that you have to ask a whole raft of pointless ‘when was the cat flap last oiled’ questions which only slow things down.

Publicise these traits of some firms…then the client will pick the better firms.

The profession is certainly at a crossroads. Law Society, please help. Get those bill boards out in each Town saying ‘is your conveyancer qualified?’ ‘ paying the same as a solicitor for your unqualified conveyancer?’. Rid us of the dross. You have the power, as much as the excellent conveyance can.

In the meantime, just be an excellent conveyancer – and as for electronic conveyancing please don’t. Trust the system to the Land Registry? At a time when they would rather return an AP1 for failing to send it to the correct office than send it on themselves or even deal with it from their office? When they increase fees when all around businesses are giving value for money and slashing prices. When Land Registry Direct close at 10pm. When not every title has the lease or Transfer scanned in. When you must again change your wretched password just when it is crucial that you have immediate access to Land Registry Direct.