Record fall in applications for university law degrees

I might be a bit of a cynic sometimes, but since the Government announced the scrapping of subsidised further education thereby exposing students to 9K a year costs, I have always suspected that this end result of a drop in applications and a hit to further education for poorer students (which was always an inevitable outcome of this Tory led policy) was their underlying intention; to bring further education out of the means of the poor and return it back into the arms of the upper echelons of society. Like I said, I am a cynic when it comes to Conservative ideological policy making.
This report is however bad news for access to education whatever the underlying reason. Studying Law is already expensive enough, but today prospective students are going to have to think long and hard before embarking on a study path that is going to cost them a minimum of £40K before they have even entered the industry. That is one hell of a millstone and potential personal financial timebomb to carry around your neck if you have financed such study by way of loans.

40k was the debt my generation was saddled with (LPC 2006), those studying law now will have far more! 9k x 3 = 27k on university fees. Add to that a student loan of 12k. Add to that LPC fees of circa 10k and another 10k to get through the year on rent/bills etc and you've got minimum 49k.

Heaven help you if you want to to the GDipL! You can add a further 15k onto that figure. Is 65k of debt worth it when you have to fight for a job and your chances of being a partner/business owner are virtually nil with the LSA/ABS? I advise people not to bother unless they understand the reality of the situation and debt they will accumulate. I also advise that unless they do law at a decent uni (Russell Group or top 20) then they will struggle.

I actually think a drop in numbers may well be a good thing for the profession. It will probably mean less law graduates from third rate universities who have no chance of actually becoming a lawyer and who have been deceived by the university/school propaganda that they can. It's better for them in the long run and hopefully some of these institutions will finally get their comeuppance after years of bleeding students dry in return for a poor education.

The previous blogger spoils a very effective analysis by a misguided last paragraph. Degrees in England are externally validated to ensure that they are all of equal standard. The difference between universities will lie more in perception, and in such factors as the demography of the students who go to them ( it's not inevitable but poorer students tend to get lower entry grades and so go disproportionately to less valued universities ), the money available to the University to support them and the reputation of the institution, not to mention unreliable memories of when middle-aged people were teenagers and simple snobbery .

As for the Russell Group, it is a self-appointed group of 20 large universities who exist to lobby for their own interests. It is not a mark of quality and not being a member does not mean that your degree is of less worth. For example, it is generally harder to get into Exeter University, which isn't a Russell Group member, than to get into Sheffield University, which is..

And by the way, the first blogger, in an otherwise good blog ( ie I agreed) refers to Further Education when surely he/she means Higher Education. They are different sectors.

Perhaps the number of students decreasing is a ‘blessing’ as the profession is clearly oversubscribed and saturated. There are far too many students who have graduated from ‘third-tier’ universities with 2.2 degrees (or less) who have gone on to study the LPC/ BVC blindly without any hope of obtaining a training contract.

I agree there are too many students who have been ‘processed’ and they will find it extremely difficult to get out of the ‘hole’ they find themselves in. They will also find themselves over qualified for other jobs, and again 9 times out of 10, they will end up pursuing their dream of qualifying by doing low paid paralegal jobs in the hope that they will obtain a training contract.

There is clearly a lack of proper careers advice (at school and college), and the bare facts should be put forward to students and their parents (who may be funding their education) so that they can make a proper decision before being swallowed up by these money making intuitions!

I would agree with most of the above; however I would point out to

Surely the student has to
Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 25/10/2011 - 13:47.
Surely the student has to take some responsibility for not actually doing any research

that I did the research, and I discussed this with my personal tutor at my LPC provider once I had paid my fees in a frank manner to be told over 90% of their graduates got TC's; as it happens once the 30 odd% droppped out still less than 25% had secured a TC on graduation. LPC providers lie... it is not a case of optimism; they lied to me and most people on the course, even after we had paid our non refundable fees.

Im no fool by anyone's standards but it is difficult to get a balanced view when those people you rely upon for honest advice do not tell the truth.

£10,000 entry fee x 100 students = £1m

Running Costs - £250,000...Selling the dream to wannabe solicitors!

You used to have Academic Universities and vocational Polytechnics.

They were horses for different courses. Now all the polys are universities and the are all selling "Media Courses" and arts, sports science (great but, how many personal trainers does a country need?) to make ends meet to the detriment of the real research and academic study they used to do.

Many of the "new" universities are actually giving a better standard than some of the more "established" ones. However, todays "sausage factory" approach to churning out graduates that is not saying much.

The trouble is we still have the old myth that a graduate is better than a non-graduate. perhaps in the distant past that was true. But I no longer think that is the case. I went to University as a mature student (post 30).

So I had something to evaluate my experience against.

My view is unless you are doing something that requires a purely academic background then you are better off, and better for it, going the vocational route.

We should stop academic only entry to the profession. By all means give a credit for the study but access to the profession should be via ILEX.

It should also be that only pt1 ILEX can be chargeable fee earners. That should sort out the exploitation of unqualified staff.

That way the fee earners have a base knowledge and can progress and the profession would be made up of experienced practitioners.

Likewise the Bar would lose direct entry and prospective barristers have been solicitors. Then they would be a proper "cadre" of pure advocates.

An end to Degree/LPC and caseworker exploitation, Career progression, and future for the profession all in one hit.