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I understand the point Mr Tick and Mr Cockshutt are making. Viewed in another light, however, it could be said that we did indeed "join Europe" in 1939 (the guarantees to Poland and Rumania) and have been there - greatly to Europe's benefit - ever since. It is certainly arguable that since 1945 Britain has done far more for the security and peaceful development of western Europe through its leading role in founding and participating in agencies outside the EU (NATO, WEU, OECD, Council of Europe, ECHR etc) than we or any other European country has ever done inside.