Presenting his interim report to the media, Lord Woolf made one thing very clear.

Despite all the talk of new technology, advice kiosks and mobile courts, there would be no more resources for our civil courts.

Lord Woolf said he believed they could deliver a better product for the same price.This view is shared by Michael Huebner, chief executive of the Courts Service and responsible for the running of the crown and county courts.

In fact, the challenge he faces is even greater.

The government will no doubt want many of the Woolf report's recommendations carried out.

It also wants the Courts Service, with its new agency status, to be self-financing.'I think what Lord Woolf is saying recognises reality,' Mr Huebner says.

'We are extremely unlikely to get significant extra resources.

But I do not think one need be downhearted.

There is plenty of capacity within the system.'One of the most obvious, but most controversial, ways to save money would be to continue closing courts.'It is not a programme with a hit list,' Mr Huebner says.

'It is a question of looking at each court individually.

There is no doubt that in the current context a lot of very small county courts are no longer viable.

The business may have fallen off, and there may not be a need for a strong local presence because people no longer pay judgment debts over the counter by instalments.'I think it is unrealistic these days to expect people to travel less far to a county court than perhaps to a hospital or theatre or something like that.'Yet in many places, South Wales or some of the industrial areas of the north, there are several dozen small courts, each within a few miles of each other and almost all within relatively easy travelling distance of a major court centre.'But Mr Huebner is careful not to suggest courts in isolated rural areas are likely to be shut.

This would contradict the Woolf report, which specifically calls for this category of court to remain open.'We would say very definitely that where geographical reasons point to having a court, because it is in the country and a long, long way from anywhere else, and we need to maintain a presence, we would certainly do that.'A further problem for Mr Huebner is that his courts' only source of income, from fees, is going down.

As hard-up companies try to find cheaper ways to pursue their debtors, debt recovery actions in the county courts, and the fees that go with them, have declined.'At the moment we are covering 70% of our costs,' he says.

'Three or four years ago that figure was 80%.

Our target for the current year is 75%.'One of the most important things we have got to do is see if we can achieve a restructuring of the fee system which would be fairer to the debt collection organisati ons, the vast majority of plaintiffs in the county courts.'At the moment it is frontloaded to issue of the writ or the debt.

The debt collection companies virtually never pursue a case through to judgment.

They are in effect paying for much of the operation further down the line.'If we could spread payment of fees through the life of a case, these companies would no longer be subsidising others.

The Lord Chancellor's proposal of a hearing fee should be seen in this context.'A further pressure on the Courts Service comes from below, in the form of the consumer.

Despite the existence of the courts charter since 1992, a national survey of court users, including lawyers, published in May, showed continuing worries over training of staff and over listing.'The big message was that people felt they were dealt with, on the whole, in a friendly and helpful way by court staff.

Nevertheless, many of them felt they did not know enough about what was going on, about likely delays and what was going to happen.'Next month we hope to launch a new charter, to be called the charter for court users, which should produce higher standards in the giving of information and treatment of court users.'It will act as an extension of the original courts charter.

It will not apply to magistrates' courts, but it will link in to the standards applied by the CPS and the police and to that extent it is a joint effort.'Along with the new charter the Courts Service will be the subject of a major computerisation drive.'Most of our efforts have been concentrated on centralising and computerising the bulk debt recovery work at Northampton.

About half the default work in the county courts is now done there, pretty well automatically.'Over the next few years we plan to make a big impact by computerisation on the work that cannot be centralised.

There should be substantial cost savings as a result.'In the long run we will get rid of some of the back-breaking paperwork in the county courts and therefore the quality of the jobs will tend to rise.

Woolf is a step in that process.'Restructuring its management is another way Mr Huebner believes the Courts Service can reduce overheads and increase efficiency.'At the moment we have a headquarters and six regions or circuits, each under a circuit administrator,' he explains.

'Under the circuit administrators there are groups of courts, covering, for example, an area of half Yorkshire.'So there are three tiers of management - centre, region and area - before you get to the person in command in the courthouse, the chief clerk.

The object is to get a leaner management structure which is effective in delivering the goods.'The Woolf report emphasised the need for a partnership between court officials and judiciary if new case management practices were to be become a reality.'There is nothing new in the idea of a partnership,' Mr Huebner says, 'but the skills needed will be new.'We are looking at some of our working practices in the county courts so we will put more emphasis on skills in subject areas.

We will rotate staff less.'I hope when we have the new pay and grading structures we will be able to reward particularly valuable staff for retaining and developing their skills, rather than moving people for career purposes so than they get a variety of experience.'At the moment case management exists in only a fairly rudimentary form.

We have got a big agenda to train up for if it is introduced.'If the Courts Service faces one central task in the next years, it is, Mr Huebner believes, to modernise th e 'out-of-date, paper-based systems' of the county courts.