All in-house lawyers want to demonstrate that they help rather than hinder their companies, and the principle applies even more to lawyers setting up in-house legal teams for the first time.Corin Maberly, new head of legal at Infobank, says: 'The hardest thing when you set up a legal department in an established company is changing the mind-set of the people in the company to using you.

You can't just say to people "now you've got to use lawyers all the time".'You take the role that the different business units in the company are your clients as well as being part of the overall team.

You've got to build relationships and trust, which make your job easier and, hopefully, make their job easier too.'He was one of two solicitors to join the software publishing company last spring from the information technology and intellectual property department of US firm McDermott Will and Emery's London office, with the brief of setting up an in-house department for the first time.

The other, Robin Hothersall, who was head of legal, enjoys the challenge so much that last month he joined Internet infrastructure provider CityReach International to do it all over again.Infobank, which has been in business for seven years and has a staff of 300 worldwide, had previously relied on the commercial director David Courtier-Dutton, who had qualified as a solicitor at Simmons & Simmons before becoming a merchant banker.The Internet company lastminute.com similarly had no in-house legal team before Jill Durham joined as head of legal and business affairs in March 2000, just after its flotation.She echoes Mr Maberly's sentiments: 'One of the main challenges once I was on board was raising awareness of the legal department.

It's important you don't go in and write a whole set of rules and regulations.

If you do that in a company, you're just seen as a barrier, and everything will come in to you at the last minute to get stamped, and it won't work.

You need to be seen to be adding value to what they are doing.'According to Ann Page, head of legal services at the Co-Operative Bank, where she set up the department 12 years ago, there is no better way of running a department, whether new or established, than to find out what your internal clients want .But she says there is another valuable source of advice for anyone setting up a department from scratch.

In-house lawyers are, in her experience, always willing to help one another, in a way that competing law firms cannot.She is deputy vice-chairman and director of training of the Law Society's Commerce and Industry Group, and says that although there is no formal pack age of advice for those setting up a new department, all employed lawyers are entitled to membership, and the group can help them to find other people with whom to network.Siobhain Butterworth, who left Stephens Innocent (now Finers Stephens Innocent) four years ago to set up a legal department for the first time at Guardian Newspapers, did ask lawyers at other newspapers for advice on structures.

They were all helpful, she confirms.Ms Page's advice to any solicitor setting up a department is to think carefully before you choose the rest of your staff.

'Never hire just to get a bum on a seat,' she says.She suggests seconding solicitors from private practice.

'I hired one of my best in-house lawyers after a secondment, and the firm where they worked is still talking to me,' she smiles.

'After all, it's an extra client for them.'Ms Durham had two solicitors seconded from London media firm Harbottle & Lewis in her previous job as head of legal at Virgin Atlantic, and it was a successful move.

They worked quickly, and in the way she wanted.She says external law firms tend to be slower and more cautious than in-house lawyers.

'They are worried about being sued, so they give you all the possibilities.'One of the biggest challenges in setting up an in-house legal department is the relationship with the established external lawyers, who will still be used as a sounding board, or to cover for periods of intense work, or for major transactions and cases.The existing external lawyers can be a considerable resource in the early days of a new department.

Ms Butterworth says: 'The Guardian editorial team had a strong relationship with Geraldine Proudler at Olswang, which continues.

I had long discussions with her.' She also continues to use Lovells as the company's corporate lawyers.

Infobank has continued to use its external lawyers, Laytons and Osborne Clarke, but has also brought in Masons, and is considering setting up a panel.Mr Maberly describes the position he was in when the department started: 'It's all about relationships.

It's difficult coming on board and not having a relationship with the firms the company already uses.

You have either a relationship with the firm you've just left, or all the other firms you've come into contact with in private practice; it's easier to work from an existing relationship than have the relationship forced on you by the existing advisers.'But he adds: 'By the same token, where there's an existing relationship between a law firm and a company, there is obviously a wealth of experience in the firm that you can rely upon.'Ultimately, he says that if you strike up an instant rapport, 'that's going to go a long way'.

If you don't, 'you'll go back on the people you know'.Mr Maberly says the in-house assumption is that legal advice from the top 50 law firms will be the same, and quality should not be in question.

'So it comes down to how well they know you, and you know them.'He says it is important to allow a legal department to forge those relationships.

'We weren't told who to use; it was entirely up to us.

It was our responsibility.

If it doesn't go well, we have only ourselves to blame.

Nothing's gone wrong so far.'As legal departments mature, they assess how much to grow and how much work to bring in-house.

Ms Butterworth, whose responsibilities include the Observer newspaper and 13 Web sites as well as the Guardian, now has a team of four lawyers: two doing commercial work, and two working on day-to-day litigation.She says she compared the costs of internal and external litigat ion, and found it was cheaper to keep much of it with her own lawyers.

'It is also interesting and exciting work, and it allows them to keep up their skills,' she says.

Often these are important points of media law, being fought on principle, including test cases on reporting restrictions, or the right not to hand over photographs or confidential documents.One of the strangest changes at first when you set up an in-house department is losing the support network of people and established systems.Ms Butterworth, says: 'I was used to having secretaries and support, and systems for opening and closing files.

Inevitably, the systems I set up at first were temporary ones, although ones which worked.'But for all the conflicting pressures in the early days of setting up systems and procedures, while coping with day-to-day work at the same time, Ms Page says at least when you start, you have a blank page.'It can be much harder when you have to re-shape a legal department because your company is changing.

If, for example, part of the company is sold off, do some of the lawyers go with them?'Setting up an in-house team may be the hard part, but adapting to the corporate swings-and-roundabouts is one thing that lawyers are not trained for.