Obiter was in the audience for the JUSTICE North event in Liverpool on Thursday, which culminated in a fireside (minus the fire) chat in the resplendent town hall between Baronesses Hale and Chakrabarti.
We expected the interview would consist of a few pleasantries, plenty of mutual admiration and the odd plug for their respective books.
But the evening took an interesting turn towards a bit of friction when an audience member asked Hale what she thought of the plans to reform the jury system.
Given this was a room full of worthy lawyers, Hale would have no doubt got a rapturous ovation for expressing her opposition, but she was not taking the easy option.
‘You only have to go anywhere near a court to recognise its is extremely slow, expensive and often inefficient,’ said Hale, who then asked whether it was right for ‘comparatively minor’ crimes to be given the opportunity of a jury trial. She added that she supported the idea of an intermediate court with lay people sitting alongside a judge.
‘The very cases that ought to come up quickly are taking three or four years to come up. That is an unsustainable situation.’
Baroness Chakrabarti initially seemed a bit taken aback but made an impassioned defence of the jury trial for ‘serious offences’. Hale agreed with her points, but noted astutely how Chakrabarti was effectively making the same point as she had.
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